Category: Uncategorized

Jackson Browne – Detroit, MI (02/13/74)

Jackson Browne
Michigan Palace
Detroit, Michigan
February 13, 1974

Transfer: 1970’s BASF Studio Series tape (re-shelled) > Nakamichi DR-01 (azimuth adjusted) > Sound Devices USBPre2 > Audacity > iZotope RX / ozone 5 (mastered) > Peak Pro 6 (post production) > xACT 2.39 > FLAC

01 Take It Easy
02 Donít Lead Me On
03 Our Lady Of The Well
04 Song For Adam
05 Jamaica Say You Will
06 Ready Or Not
07 For Everyman
08 Rock Me On The Water
09 The Road And The Sky
10 Doctor My Eyes
11 Redneck Friend
12 Sweet Little Sixteen

Known Faults:
-The Road And The Sky: first couple of notes cut

Once again we tap the archives of our anonymous benefactor with a low generation document of the 1974 Jackson Browne / Linda Rondstadt co-headlining bill. The two performers alternated opening and closing spots and at tonight’s performance Jackson Browne closes show.

The included newspaper review mentions only about 500 people attended the show, a shockingly low number even for this time period in each’s career. However, with that low of attendance our taper gets an excellent, crowd free capture.

As seemed to happen more times than one would think at a Jackson Browne concert, we get an audience drunk yelling things at the stage. Fortunately, he is not near our taper and it elicits a classic Jackson moment when Jackson says “will you just shut up” along with telling a sexually suggestive joke aimed at the drunk.

This one almost didn’t happen, the tape it was on was a BASF Studio Series 90 minute cassette which was produced in 1976-1978. Time had not been kind to it and about halfway through transfer the squeaking and squealing began shortly followed by tape drag and then complete stoppage. Once I re-shelled the tape to a new shell I got a beautiful drag free transfer.

Midnight Dreamer has released this show in the past but I don’t know what other versions may have circulated. Linda’s set has been shared previously, to my knowledge there has not been a version released from this low of a tape generation.

Thanks to the anonymous collector that supplied a number of excellent shows with more to come!

In addition, a big big thanks to the good Professor Goody who is always at the ready at a moments notice to make sure the pitch is accurate on these historic and important documents. This tape is so much better for it…

Artwork and samples provided…

mjk5510

Furthur Festival – Ventura, CA (08/01/96)

Furthur Festival
August 1 1996
Ventura Fairgrounds
Ventura, CA

FOB: Nyquist Omnis >Sony TCD-D7 (16bit/48khz)
DAT Master Transferred: Tascam DA-P1 >S/PDIF >HHb CDR 800 PRO (16bit/44.1khz)*

CD Masters >FLAC (Level 8) Via xACT 2.41**

*HHb CDR 800 Changed Sampling Rate Automatically During Digital Transfer.

**WAV >Audacity (Final Track Of Disc I [Happy Birthday To Jerry] Was Extended With A Patch From Disc II Track I To Make One Complete Track. Track I Disc II Was Deleted And Subsequent Tracks Renumbered.)

Recorded, Transferred, FLAC’d, Tagged, & Amended Front Cover Artwork By OldNeumanntapr
Recorded 40ft In Front Of Left PA Stack.

Missing: Opening Hot Tuna Electric Set, Last Few Songs Of Bruce Hornsby’s Set, And Mickey Hart’s Mystery Box Set

Disc I:

(Los Lobos)

  1. Peace
  2. Shakin’ Shakin’ Shakes
  3. Will The Wolf Survive?
  4. Revolution
  5. Cinnamon Girl
  6. Maricela
  7. Ay Te Dejo En San Antonio
  8. Let’s Say Goodnight*
  9. Mas Y Mas
  10. Bertha^
  • – w/ Harvey Sorgen On Rubboard
    ^ – w/ Pete Sears On Keyboards

(Alvin Youngblood Hart)

  1. Pony Blues
  2. Them Fair Weather Friends
  3. Joe Friday
  4. Gallows Pole
  5. Big Mama’s Door
  6. Flying Karamazov Brothers wish Jerry Happy Birthday

Disc II:

(Bruce Hornsby)

  1. Black Muddy River
  2. Spider Fingers >
    xx. Tighten Up >
    (Tempus Fugit)
  3. Night On The Town
  4. Western Skyline >
  5. Iko Iko
  6. What A Time >
    –. Jacob’s Ladder
  7. Mandolin Rain//
    xx. That Would Be Something > (missing)
    xx. Another Day (missing)

(Mickey Hart’s Mystery Box)
xx. Missing

(Hot Tuna Acoustic)

  1. I Am The Light Of This World
  2. Keep Your Lamps Trimmed And Burning
  3. How Long Blues*
  4. Let Us Get Together Right Down Here*
  5. That’ll Never Happen No More*
  • – w/ Hornsby’s Horn Section: Bobby Reed – Saxophone, Steve Berlin – Saxophone

Disc III:

(Ratdog)

  1. Walking Blues
  2. Wang Dang Doodle *
  3. Eternity
  4. Blackbird
  5. Looks Like Rain +
  6. Juke
  7. It’s All Over Now
  8. I Need A Miracle
  9. The Winners >
  10. Bass / Jam >
  11. Turn On Your Lovelight

Disc IV

(Encores)

  1. Playin’ In The Band *** >
  2. Proud Mary *** >
  3. One Way Out *** >
  4. Knockin’ On Heavens Door ***

*-with Cindy Wasserman (Vocals); +-with Bruce Hornsby (Keys)
**-with Hornsby, Los Lobos, Hot Tuna, Mickey Hart, etc….

OldNeumanntapr Notes-
I was hoping for a board patch for the Furthur Festival, because I had heard from other tapers that they were allowing limited board access. (The bands would only allow board patches from Hot Tuna and Los Lobos, and occasionally by Bruce Hornsby, so the other bands were audience or nothing.) Unfortunately I got there late because of traffic and missed my opportunity to plug in because they were only giving access to a certain number of tapers. So, I had no choice but to record the festival up front and hope for a copy of the board tape later. (I had already missed the opening Hot Tuna set.) As it was, I met Jeff Lester at this show, who was fortunate enough to have plugged in with his TCD-D3, and he sent me a copy later of the Hot Tuna and Los Lobos sets. I had brought two 60 meter DAT blanks with me but ran out of tape on the 1st DAT and missed the end of the Hornsby set, and I didn’t notice this until just after the set. I also missed all of Mickey Hart’s Mystery Box because I wanted to conserve my second DAT blank. I like the Ventura Fairgrounds. I taped the Dead there in ’87 and actually had tickets for the ’86 show and drove all the way down before I found out that they were cancelled because of Jerry’s coma. I was there for Jerry in ’92 and ’94. I forgot a cable at the ’92 show and wasn’t able to record with my deck and I met some other tapers there and got a copy later, but I pulled a good one in ’94.

One think I always thought was cool about the beach right next to the fairgrounds is that when the waves would wash in, they would roll the cannon-ball sized rocks around and make a really surreal noise. (It was even better sounding if you were…partaking in party favors.) 🙂

Do NOT Convert To MP3.
Enjoy! Share freely, don’t sell, play nice, don’t run with scissors, etc. 😉

Leo Kottke – Santa Barbara, CA (11/08/14)

Leo Kottke
11/08/14
Lobero Theatre
Santa Barbara, CA

Row N, Seat #1 14th Row (DEAD Center):
Neumann AK-40s (ORTF In Hat) >LC3 >KM-100s >Beyer MV-100 >Tascam DR-100mkII (24/48)
(Recorded By OldNeumanntapr)
(Transferred By Dennis Orr & OldNeumanntapr).WAV >iZotope RX4 Advanced v4.00.435 (declick) >Sound Forge Pro 10.0a [minor edits & normalize] (Dennis Orr) >WAV >Audacity [Track Splits & Down Sample / Dither To 16/44.1] >FLAC + Tags Via xACT 2.53)
(Front-Cover Artwork By OldNeumanntapr)

  1. Pamela Brown
  2. Airproofing
  3. Ojo
  4. False Start
  5. Julie’s House
  6. Four Cents
  7. Story
  8. Rings
  9. Wonderland By Night
  10. Story
  11. Standing In My Shoes
  12. Story
  13. Living In The Country
  14. Busted Bicycle
  15. Corrina Corrina
  16. Go Away A Little Closer
  17. Disco
  18. Story
  19. Gewerbegebiet

Encore:

  1. June Bug

OldNeumanntapr Notes-

I can’t believe that this was the first Leo Kottke show that I have recorded, having discovered Leo late in my music collecting saga. I just love his stories. That’s the main reason I collect so many of his shows. I don’t remember if my friend Dave went with me to this show or if I drove down by myself. I really enjoy recording in the Lobero because it has such great acoustics!

Do NOT Convert To MP3.
Enjoy! Share freely, don’t sell, play nice, don’t run with scissors, etc. 😉

Jackson Browne & Friends – Santa Monica, CA (03/15/98)

Jackson Browne & Friends
3/15/98
Santa Monica Civic Auditorium
Santa Monica, CA

11th Row, Center; Nyquist Omnis >Sony TCD-D7

Master DAT Transferred: Tascam DA-30 >HHb CDR 800 PRO Via Analog i/o,
CD Masters >WAV Via xACT 2.37 >Audacity (Track Splits, Minor Edits & Normalize) >FLAC (Level 8) + Tags Via xACT 2.47

Benefit for Jorge Calderon’s wife, Yvonne

Recorded, Transferred, Audacity, FLAC’d, Tagged, & Front Cover Artwork By OldNeumanntapr

Disc I:

  1. Intro; Jackson Browne
  2. Old Coot From Tennessee*
  3. They Call Me The Meat Man*
  4. Do You Want My Job*
  5. Well Well Well*
  6. Cat Food Sandwiches*
  7. Minglewood Blues*
  8. Come To The River With Me^
  9. At The Dark End Of The Street^
  10. (I’ve Been) So Wrong So Long*#
  11. (Let’s Go To) The Well*#
  12. Song Of Bernadette*#

Disc II:

  1. Johnny Strikes Up The Band%
  2. Seminole Bingo%
  3. Sick%
  4. I Was In The House When The House Burned Down%
  5. Veracruz%
  6. Lawyers Guns And Money%
  7. Poor Poor Pitiful Me%
  8. Taken At All@
  9. Deja Vu@
  10. Jorge Calderone Intro By Warren Zevon
  11. What You Need^%
  12. Dreaming As One^%

Disc III:

  1. The Barricades Of Heaven#
  2. Culver Moon#
  3. Too Many Angels#
  4. Call It A Loan#
  5. Alive In The World#
  6. Lawless Avenues#
  7. Linda Paloma#

Encore:

  1. Play It All Night Long
  2. Werewolves Of London
  3. Stand By Me

David Lindley & Wally Ingram *
Terry Evans ^
Jennifer Warnes *#
Warren Zevon %
David Crosby, Graham Nash, & Jeff Pevar @
Jorge Calderon ^%
Jackson Browne#
Encores With Everyone

OldNeumanntapr Notes:
Of the many benefit shows that Jackson Browne has been a part of, this one is one of my absolute favorites.

Do NOT Convert To MP3.
Enjoy! Share freely, don’t sell, play nice, don’t run with scissors, etc. 😉

RatDog – Santa Cruz, CA (06/03/01)

Ratdog
June 3 2001
Palookaville
Santa Cruz, CA

Source: (FOB) Neumann KM 140s (ORTF) >Beyer MV-100 >Tascam DA-P1
Lineage: DAT-M > Sony TCD-D7 >HHb CDR 800
Recorded, Transferred, FLAC Tags, (xACT 2.53) & Front Cover Artwork / Photograph: OldNeumanntapr
Extraction (CDR >EAC >WAV >FLAC): Brad Foster

Disc 1:
Set One

  1. Jam >
  2. Shakedown Street >
  3. New Minglewood Blues
  4. Loser
  5. K.C. Moan *#
  6. El Paso *#
  7. Black Throated Wind #
  8. Odessa
  9. Eyes Of The World

Disc 2:
Set Two

  1. Estimated Prophet >
  2. The Other One >
  3. Samson And Delilah >
  4. Bass/Drums Jam >

Disc 3:
Set Two cont/Encore

  1. Jam > Terrapin Station >
  2. Two Djinn >
  3. Corrina

Encore:

  1. Uncle John’s Band

Notes:

  • – Bob, Rob & Mark
  • Bob acoustic

— Cryptical tease out of The Other One
— Jay continued drumming between Corrina & UJB

OldNeumanntapr Notes;
This was one of only two shows that I recorded at Palookaville in Santa Cruz, now long since gone. Palookaville was a shoebox-type club with a low ceiling and the stage at one of the narrow ends and a bar at the other. The other show I recorded there was Medeski, Martin, & Wood in 1999. Palookaville had poor ventilation and could get really hot and stuffy inside, as I remember this show to be. My friend Taper Ron nearly passed out because of the heat and the crowded bodies. Palookaville lasted from 1994 to 2002. At the beginning of ‘Eyes Of The World’, a girl cries out to please open the door because it was so hot and stuffy inside. It really was like a sauna.

I recorded the show up front on the left with my Neumann rig and also shot photos with a Nikon F4S and 85mm f/1.4 AIS Nikkor manual focus lens, on Fuji 1600 print film. This was the second time that I have seen Bob Weir solo, the first was when he and Rob Wasserman opened for the Jefferson Airplane in Golden Gate Park on Sept 30 1989.

I saw Charlie Miller again at this show, the one who does the remasters of Dead soundboards and led to people coining the phrase ‘Miller Boards’. Charlie was the only one who the band would allow to plug into the soundboard. The rest of us had to tape in the audience, but at least I got a good place upfront, about 20 ft. from stage on the left side.

Do NOT Convert To MP3.
Enjoy! Share freely, don’t sell, play nice, don’t run with scissors, etc. 😉

Bob Weir & Rob Wasserman – San Francisco, CA (09/30/89)

Bob Weir & Rob Wasserman
9/30/89
Polo Fields
Golden Gate Park
San Francisco, CA

Opened For Jefferson Airplane – you can see their set here.

FOB; Aiwa CM-30 Stereo Cardioid >Sony WM-D6C Cassette Master >CDR >FLAC
XLIIS Cassette Master Transferred: Sony TC-D5M >HHb CDR 800 PRO,
CD Master >FLAC (Level 8) Via xACT 2.35

Recorded, Transferred FLAC, Tags (via xACT 2.53), & Front Cover Artwork By OldNeumanntapr

  1. Blackbird
  2. Walkin’ Blues
  3. Twilight Time
  4. Fever
  5. When I Paint My Masterpiece
  6. Artificial Flowers
  7. The Winners
  8. Victim Or The Crime
  9. Easy To Slip
  10. Throwing Stones

Encore:

  1. Misty

OldNeumanntapr Notes:
This was billed as a free show, but we were still hesitant to bring the Nakamichi CM-300’s. I wished I would have, because it was a completely free and open taping event. I even saw a Pro video camera there. I ran the Aiwa CM-30 microphone clipped to the outside of a hat, and stood as tall as I could. Weir & Wasserman opened for a reunited Jefferson Airplane, which was the highlight of the afternoon. Hot Tuna also played an acoustic set in the middle of the Airplane set. It was amazing weather, which some people said felt like earthquake weather. About 12 days later (or so) the big earthquake struck the bay area, collapsing freeways and closing down the Bay Bridge. Freaky. After this afternoon set was over, we hoofed it down to Shoreline for the Grateful Dead show that night. We got into the taper section late and only were able to record the second set.

My ex wife Nikki and I rode to San Francisco with my friend Taper Ron, from Oakland, because I was leery of parking two cars at Golden Gate Park, but maybe it would have been better if we had so we didn’t have to go back to Oakland after the show and make our way down 880 through the East Bay.

This was technically my first Front Of Board audience recording.

Do NOT Convert To MP3.
Enjoy! Share freely, don’t sell, play nice, don’t run with scissors, etc. 😉

Queen – Tokyo, Japan (04/04/76)

Queen
University Hall
Tokyo, Japan
April 4, 1976

TITLE : Either “Lazing On A Sunday Evening” OR
“Crowning Glory” ; take your pick…
FORMAT : 1 LP vinyl bootleg record

This is a taped copy of a vinyl bootleg record,
2nd gen from the vinyl, I was assured FWIW.

Lineage:

Vinyl bootleg record > unknown turntable, etc. >
TDK D60 normal bias cassette tape, alleged 2nd gen >
SONY TC-WE405 Stereo Cassette Deck >
ZOOM H2 Handy Recorder (tracked songs here) >
inx 1 GB SD sound card >
computer HD (transferred wav files here) >
Cakewalk Pyro 2005 (retracked and edited wav files here) >
Trader’s Little Helper (Flac Frontend encode level 8,
aligned on sector boundaries)

Setlist & Fingerprints:

Track 01 Introduction
Track 02 – Bohemian Rhapsody last section
Track 03 – Ogre Battle
Track 04 – Sweet Lady
Track 05 – White Queen
Track 06 – Bohemian Rhapsody first section
Track 07 – Killer Queen
Track 08 – MOTBQ and BR finale
Track 09 – Bring Back That Leroy Brown
Track 10 – The Prophet’s Song
Track 11 – Stone Cold Crazy
Track 12 – Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon
Track 13 – Liar
Track 14 – In The Lap Of The Gods

Note: Track 08 – MOTBQ and BR finale = March Of The Black Queen
and Bohemian Rhapsody finale.

14 tracks, 53:50
TT: 53:50
SQ: 8-8.5/10, vg+ aud IMHO
This appears to be a bit more than
50% of the concert.

This will be VERY short & sweet. This was requested by
1bgsky ; here you go, buddy ! This is by no means the
finest dub of this rare boot. I got this either in trade
or bought it within the last 15 years. The vinyl that this
was copied from has several pops and crackles in it ;
otherwise it sounds pretty good. I did NOTHING to attempt
to improve the SQ. If anybody wishes to try to remaster
this recording and up it here, go right ahead. I just hope
that you know what you’re doing. If anyone has a virgin
copy of this show, please do a first gen dub right off the
vinyl and up it on Dime. I’ll be looking for it !!! That’s
really all that I have so let’s get this show on the yellow
brick road to spiritual enlightenment…..

Finally, please don’t buy, sell or convert this show to mp3 or any other
lossy format. Please seed this as long as you can. Please trade this freely
as it probably is fairly uncirculated. This show will be a welcome addition
to any Queen fan’s collection. I will post a sample to help some of you decide
whether or not to get it. As rare as this seems to be though, you’d be a fool
to pass this up until a better copy appears. So, as Mr. Natural is so fond of
saying, have fun, don’t freak out and enjoy the concert !

jojogunne 11/21/2010

Remember The Motto: We Do What We Can !

Pink Floyd – BBC Broadcasts (1967-1971)

Pink Floyd
BBC Broadcasts 1967-1971


Catalog: Bedrock Records

Sources: 27 Jan 1967- 30Sep71

Tracks:

Disc: 1

  1. Interstellar Overdrive 4:00
  2. Mathilda Mother 3:12
  3. Pow R Toc H 0:47
  4. Astronomy Domine 4:56
  5. Interstellar Overdrive w/interview 7:01
  6. Reaction in G 0:35
  7. Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun 3:11
  8. Flaming 2:35
  9. Apples and Oranges 2:55
  10. Scarecrow 2:01
  11. The Gnome 2:08
  12. Mathilda Mother 3:18
  13. Vegetable Man 3:11
  14. Scream Thy Last Scream 3:36
  15. Pow R Toc H 2:53
  16. Jugband Blues 3:47

Disc: 2

  1. Murderistic Women (aka Careful…) 2:19
  2. The Massed Gadgets of Hercules (aka Saucerful) 6:37
  3. Let there be More Light 3:39
  4. Julia Dream 2:19
  5. Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun 2:15
  6. Point Me at the Sky 4:12
  7. Baby Blue shuffle in D Minor (aka the Narrow Way part 1) 4:03
  8. The Embryo 3:25
  9. Interstellar Overdrive 9:11
  10. Daybreak (aka Grantchester Meadows) 3:37
  11. Cymbaline 3:31
  12. The Beginning (aka Green is the Colour) 3:30
  13. Beset By Creatures of the Deep (aka Careful…) 7:17
  14. The Narrow Way Part 3 4:35

Disc: 3

  1. Interstellar Overdrive 6:30
  2. Moonhead 4:46
  3. The Embryo 10:08
  4. Green is the Colour 3:33
  5. Careful With That Axe Eugene 7:12
  6. If 4:20
  7. Atom Heart Mother 24:44

Disc: 4

  1. The Embryo 9:55
  2. Blues 4:44
  3. Fat Old Sun 14:09
  4. One of These Days 6:45
  5. Echoes 26:08

Band:
Syd Barret
Roger Waters
David Gilmour
Nick Mason
Rick Wright

Xref:
Quality:
Comments: Sources in detail:
Disc 1 Tracks 1,2: UFO Club London Jan 27, 1967 BBC TV “Scene Special”
Disc 1 Tracks 3,4: BBC Television Centre London May 14 1967 “Look of the Week”
Disc 1 Track 5: BBC Radio London July 1967
Disc 1 Tracks 6,7: Cosmopolitan Ballroom Carlisle UK July 23, 1967
Disc 1 Tracks 8-12: Playhouse Theatre London, Sep 25, 1967 “Top Gear”
Disc 1 Tracks 12-16: Maida Vale Studios London Dec 20, 1967 “Top Gear”
Disc 2 Tracks 1-4: 201 Piccadilly Studio 1 London June 25 1968 “Top Gear”
Disc 2 Track 5: London Nov 3, 1968 BBC TV “All My Loving”
Disc 2 Tracks 6-9: Maida Vale Studios London Dec 2, 1968 “Top Gear”
Disc 2 Tracks: 10-14: Paris Cinema London May 12, 1969 “Top Gear”
Disc 3 Tracks 1,2: BBC Television Centre London Jul 10, 1969 “Omnibus”
Disc 3 Tracks 3-7: Paris Cinema London Jul 16, 1970 “Peel Sunday Concert”
Disc 4: Paris Cinema London Sep 30, 1971 “In Concert” -FROM THE COVER

I just got the above set and really haven’t formed an opinion yet, EXCEPT on the last disc. It is the same material as MEDDLER, but with all the music completely intact, no funny editing, none of Peel’s announcements, and in honest-to-God stereo! Someone mentioned this possibly happening due to the fact that about ten stereo copies existed, well I’m here to say that day has come!
They are real CD’s, and not CDR’s. Each is simply colored with a stamp naming and numbering each CD. Also the set itself is hand-numbered “312” of 1000.
There is a picture booklet included that is a collection of photographs, posters, and the like, including a snippet of an interview conducted by “ZZ”. Most of this I’ve seen before, including a shot of Gilmour and Waters during some of the Pompeii photography (I think they superimposed it in Echoes part I) As for a catalogue number, I’m sorry to say the only numerics aside from the edition numbers are numbers individual to each CD. -SEAMUS
I can state for sure that these are not from the stereo Meddler (which Harvested has since updated and treed as Meddled). -DAve.

Syd Barrett – Unforgotten Hero (1967-1970)

Syd Barrett
1967 – 1970 – Unforgotten Hero

Lineage: Vinyl -> ? -> low gen. cassette -> Sony HCD-EH26 + Creative SB Audigy SE + Audacity 2.0.4 -> wave -> NeroWaveEditor -> TLH -> flac

01 Scream Thy Last Scream
02 Vegetable Man
03 Flaming
04 Scarecrow
05 The Gnome
06 Matilda Mother
07 Gigolo Aunt
08 Effervescing Elephant
09 Interstellar Overdrive
10 Vegetable Man
11 Pow R Toc H
12 Scream Thy Last Scream
13 Jugband Blues

I found in my boxes this tape, 80 min, with a side a vinyl transfer.
I’m not a collector of vinyl boots, so I made some research, I saw that it’s rare, so I decided to transfer the tape.
Here more info: http://www.floydboots.com/pages/u2.php
I didn’t change nothing, only split the tracks.
Nothing new but a enjoyable collection.

FOR TRADE OR GIVE AWAY ONLY – DO NOT SELL !!!
Do not encode to any lossy format !!!

Nipote – 2014-01-02

Brad Mehldau & Chris Thile – Boston, MA (04/14/13)

Brad Mehldau & Chris Thile
04/14/13
Berklee Performance Center
Boston, MA

Scarlet Town (Gillian Welch Cover)
Untitled
On the Bound (Fionna Apple Cover)
Talking/tuning
Knives Out (Radiohead Cover)
Medley: St. Ann’s Reel, Dexterity
Talking
Me and Us
Some kind of Irish tune that Chris was unable to pronounce
Chopped Down Your Shade Tree
Talking
Don’t Think Twice, It’s All Right (Bob Dylan Cover)
Clapping/tuning
I Cover the Waterfront

Received in a trade with no source info.